2024 Void dwellers stellaris

Go to Stellaris r/Stellaris. r/Stellaris. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the 4X grand strategy game Stellaris by Paradox Development Studio. ... and void dwellers if you need pop growth will be coming out of your god damn ears since your habitats are basically never going to go over 37 population. ...Are you looking for a vacuum cleaner that is perfect for your needs? Whether you’re an apartment dweller or a homeowner with a large house, this guide will teach you how to choose ...Artificial planets are planets that are built from scratch. You turn existing planets into Ecumenopoli, so they don't count. 12a357sdf. • 2 yr. ago. It count somewhere in between. In Ecumenopoli, Void Dwellers have 100% habitability, but do not have the production bonuses. Their production still got decreased like in normal planets.The void dweller origin is limited to a single "empire". Selecting multiple void dweller empires currently causes only one to spawn and the rest to be replaced with other AI created empires. Ohhh, I remember that bug, yeah. I think one solution you can try is trying void dwellers expanded mod, if you want to play with that mod.Note: this mod provides its own habitat start separate from Federations' Void Dwellers since Stellaris 2.5.1. This legacy habitat start does not require Federations DLC. Formerly known as OE's Habitat start. Use of Void Dwellers or Starborn origin with Children of the Void civic is preferable, though. High compatibility Thalassocracy - seeing as Stellaris is already technically all this, I feel like Void Dwellers would be closer to the idea in-universe. Other fun examples: Kleptocracy - rule by the corrupt, thieves, embezzlers. Technically not a legitimate government type since politicians in this case are usually acting outside the law, but in Stellaris you ... I've tried to run my true and tested Institute build as Void Dwellers, but there doesn't seem to be a way to build enough alloys for habitats, ships and outposts. My current build is: F.Materialist, Egalitarian, Technocracy, Meritocracy, Intelligent, Traditional and Nonadaptive. By the year 2230 I'm finally building my first habitat and I ... It gets even more powerful if you're playing something like void dwellers and spamming habitats everywhere, and even as a planet dweller you can still have breeding farm habitats or small planets that you resettle from to wherever you need. This trait just seems like the most powerful option in the game that you'll end up taking every single time. Bed Bath & Beyond will start liquidation sales — and officially void those famous 20% off coupons — at stores Wednesday due to bankruptcy. By clicking "TRY IT", I agree to rece...An ecu will still be fully habitable for void dwellers and ring world preferring species, though the VD bonus will not apply. Well, according to what I heard here you still get the debuff on ecu so no point inhabiting. At least with ring worlds, there is no buff nor debuff.Yes there are huge nerfs to growth etc. But the build is challenging and fun when played as a very tall one. I got quite good and defence and ended up vassalising all those who bullied me at the start of the game. But I want to try something different, so thinking of MegaCorp Void Dwellers, that is sure to be a fun start.The point of the void dweller origin is not to stay on habitats forever. The habitat start makes research and trade very very powerful early game. The point of the origin is those benefits. It always makes sense in terms of economy to …Also with void dwellers at a certain point you have to replace your existing districts with city districts. Otherwise you will run into homeless issues. a research district will give you 3 researches and 3 housing. A city district will give you 8 housing and the first upgraded lab will give you 5 researcher positions.MontyPlays posted a broken void dwellers build that hits 90% build cost reduction and gets like 30k fleet by year 30-50. It's pretty busted. ... A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the 4X grand strategy game Stellaris by Paradox Development Studio. Members Online.Animals like owls, woodpeckers, jaguars and wolves live in forests. Forest life is some of the most complex on the planet and each animal is important to the ecosystem. The gray wo...Meritocracy is also good for Void Dwellers. Merchant Guilds would probably still be okay for Void Dwellers. You'd have some early issues with Unity, so you'd want to add an extra administration building. The real benefit is the ability to form a Trade League later, which will give you plenty of Consumer Goods and Unity in the long run.Ecumenoplis are strong but Voidborne + Meritocracy + max stability + fanatic egalitarian means a single habitat dedicated to alloys will produce a significant amount. So they arent needed but might be nice. Its kinda a win more strategy. As far as I can tell, VD/VB is an early game tech rush strat component. The game changes it to the normal trinary system when you do anything else. Save Race after you are done. Change Starting System to Void Sol again. Immediately click on done to start the game, do nothing else. Then it works. somirion. • 4 yr. ago. Its Sol of other reality. Or just in future, where Sun caught other stars into some orbit ... In addition, all the traditions that Void Dwellers no longer gain access to provided benefits to colonising planets so the swaps are to try and encourage Void Dweller players to not bother with colonising planets. ... Stellaris Game Designer. Paradox Staff. QA. 138 Badges. Feb 21, 2014 2.841 15.200. Apr 15, 2021; Add bookmark #11Lets consider what Adaptability brings to the table for 3 types of empires - Normals, Hive Mind and Void Dweller. The opener is -10% to housing irrelevant for normals normals and hive minds good for Void Dweller as nowadays extra housing boosts planetary capacity and habitats have notoriously bad planetary capacityWhen going for void dwellers, there are a couple of very strong picks: Incubators. Get that trait, it'll increase your pop growth quute a lot Democratic givernment with parliament system (you wamt the extra resettlement and the parliament system is very strong for a civic) I imagine this would go well with lithoids since you can inhabit a bunch of worlds and set some aside just for pop growth, syncretic evolution/necrophage having their slave species on small population thrall worlds, and void dwellers if you need pop growth will be coming out of your god damn ears since your habitats are basically never going to ... Go to Stellaris r/Stellaris. r/Stellaris. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the 4X grand strategy game Stellaris by Paradox Development Studio. ... and void dwellers if you need pop growth will be coming out of your god damn ears since your habitats are basically never going to go over 37 population. ...A contract is null and void when it can no longer be legally enforced. If one party to the contract gives an indication that it is unable to hold up its end, the other party may cl...Use alien pops on the planets. If you are RPing then don't colonize with your main pops. Keep in mind only your original species will have the void dweller perk. Aliens are normal with no bonuses or penalties for being on normal planets. And meta players don't really colonize planets either, at least immediately.Once upon a time, I looked down on Trade Value as a meme and nothing more. No longer.With the release of 3.1, trade has become significantly more viable, esp...Artificial planets are planets that are built from scratch. You turn existing planets into Ecumenopoli, so they don't count. 12a357sdf. • 2 yr. ago. It count somewhere in between. In Ecumenopoli, Void Dwellers have 100% habitability, but do not have the production bonuses. Their production still got decreased like in normal planets.Stellaris 3.10 Origins Tier List-2. Stellaris 3.7 Origins Tier List-2. Stellaris 3.4 Origins Tier List-2. The origin represents the background of a species before it unified itself into an empire. ... Void Dwellers −20% Habitat Build Cost +0.25 Building Slots from Non-Urban Habitat Districts +2 Habitat Max DistrictsCreated by an Ohio state entomologist, Bed Bug Field Guide features 15 chapters on everything from identifying a bed bug to getting rid of them. Bed bugs are a home dweller’s worst...That was my first mistake. My plan was playing a max mercenary enclave build but choose void dwellers origin. It didn't take me long to realize the habitats directly got in the way of making fleets to spin off as mercenaries. The second game I played with the goal of max mercenary enclaves but I didn't play as void dwellers. So much better.There are a few different ways that you could play void dwellers, but my favorite is to do a megacorp voidweller combo. As a voidweller I recommend playing tall as it allows you to focus a bit more in the habitats. If tou do decide to play a megacorp, then that is the easiest way to get energy credits so your habitats to focus on something else ... Thatvfeels unintentional. Regular basic resource districts for hive mind give extra jobs (3 instead of 2) - void dweller districts only give the normal 3. I think this should be upped to 4 to stay in line with the normal hive mind stuff. I suspect with non lithoid hives food will become an issue. There should be a better solution for hiveminds ... That was my first mistake. My plan was playing a max mercenary enclave build but choose void dwellers origin. It didn't take me long to realize the habitats directly got in the way of making fleets to spin off as mercenaries. The second game I played with the goal of max mercenary enclaves but I didn't play as void dwellers. So much better.Other then that though, lithoids has some advantages for void dweller: -As you mentioned you don't have to care about food (A issue on habitats). -You start with exoskeletons instead of the food techs organic races start with (So if you are lucky you might roll robots as a first tech). Note on robots for void dwellers.Voidborne is great for tech rush, get several research stations up and you're good. Yes you most likely want to be a Xenophile for the migration. You won't run out of space. You make infinitely better use of the space you have than anyone else can lol. Mercantile is also pretty much a must for void dweller.Oct 23, 2021 · basically every game with void dwellers I played goes something like this: I build 3-ish science vessels at first and eventually up to 5-7. also a second construction ship eventually to help secure chokes and build mining stations. I will usually end up with 10+ systems claimed just trying to rush choke points. Void Dwellers. Not bad. Startech mod. Grand Admiral, but with extra leader option and extra research alternatives mod. Void Dweller tech rush is pretty insane, and if you can get to proton launchers and cruisers by 2228, and build them out by 2230, you can stomp your neighbors and take their research/capital worlds. Note the 2.5k research in … Functional Architecture is a good civic for Void Dwellers. Base-level habitats can support about 13 pops before growth starts slowing down; that's about 2 housing districts, 2 resource districts, your capital building, and a couple other jobs. Once you can upgrade your habitats, you can transition all the housing to Luxury Housing buildings and ... Note: this mod provides its own habitat start separate from Federations' Void Dwellers since Stellaris 2.5.1. This legacy habitat start does not require Federations DLC. Formerly known as OE's Habitat start. Use of Void Dwellers or Starborn origin with Children of the Void civic is preferable, though. High compatibilityJan 17, 2024 · This build is about maximising the benefits of the Void Dwellers Origin in Stellaris. Perfected Void Dweller Build Summary Origin: Void Dwellers Civics: Inward Perfection, Efficient Bureaucracy Ethics: Xenophobe, Pacifist, Spiritualist Species Traits: Void Dweller, Communal, Resilient, Enduring, Conservationist, Nonadaptive Maxing the Void Dwellers The Void Dwellers Origin grants day one ... A Tier. B Tier. C Tier. Stellaris Origins Tier List 2023. S Tier Origins in Stellaris. The S Tier only features the best of the best Origin available in Stellaris. We …r/Stellaris. • 3 yr. ago. vulcan7200. How to play Void Dwellers? Advice Wanted. I really like the idea of Void Dwellers. I made a race very much based on the Quarians in Mass …I have heard from everywhere that void dwellers are supposed to be a very competitive empire type but I don't know how to make them work. before all I played was …Waiting for the national market to improve may not work. The beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic prompted large numbers of city dwellers to reconsider their housing choices, with ma...Thatvfeels unintentional. Regular basic resource districts for hive mind give extra jobs (3 instead of 2) - void dweller districts only give the normal 3. I think this should be upped to 4 to stay in line with the normal hive mind stuff. I suspect with non lithoid hives food will become an issue. There should be a better solution for hiveminds ...Part of the appeal of Void Dwellers is making a space dwelling race. Colonizing planets with droids and xenos drains VD of all their flavour. Plus, using migration treaties to settle planets messes up your primary species growth. Dirt dwellers resettle on your habitats and grow there instead of your void dwellers.The answer is to spam habitats harder. I generally try to always have one or two new habitat complexes in the process of being built for the first couple of decades while using the rest of my influence for expansion. Keep your power projection up, it's essential for the large amount of influence void dwellers need.Real-time strategyStrategy video game. It used to be called Starfarer. 2D RPG/Trade/Fleet Combat Game. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the 4X grand strategy game Stellaris by Paradox Development Studio. /r/DMAcademy is a subreddit for Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Masters to ask questions - new and experienced, all are ...God-tier game. but tomb world makes you expand faster because you have your regular habitability plus the tomb world one. they changed it so that you keep your species default habitability (example, continental), but the …As Void Dweller origin when expanding build new Habs before upgrading Habs. Due to the earlier mentioned 1 housing district per resource district mechanic a new Hab provides more jobs per alloy spent than an upgrade. ... And since stellaris is one of those games where early bonuses build overtime, 22 people in the work force immediately ...I took advantage of a $330 JetBlue Mint deal, as well as a Marriott free night certificate, Bonvoy points and a $300 statement credit to have an ideal vacation at the Stellaris in ...Learn how to draw a chicken by starting with basic shapes and adding details. These simple instructions include illustrations for each step. Advertisement You can transform basic...1) Void Dwellers do not fare well on any planets. You can genetically engineer your pops out of the debuff they get for being on a planet, but every new pop born will have the debuff (even though their parents do not). Save yourself from this nightmare and don't put void dweller pops on planets, ever. 2) Only your starting species gets the ...Real-time strategyStrategy video game. It used to be called Starfarer. 2D RPG/Trade/Fleet Combat Game. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the 4X grand strategy game Stellaris by Paradox Development Studio. /r/DMAcademy is a subreddit for Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Masters to ask questions - new and experienced, all are ... Thatvfeels unintentional. Regular basic resource districts for hive mind give extra jobs (3 instead of 2) - void dweller districts only give the normal 3. I think this should be upped to 4 to stay in line with the normal hive mind stuff. I suspect with non lithoid hives food will become an issue. There should be a better solution for hiveminds ... A contract is null and void when it can no longer be legally enforced. If one party to the contract gives an indication that it is unable to hold up its end, the other party may cl...Showing 1 - 14 of 14 comments. CrUsHeR Sep 29, 2021 @ 11:47am. Synthetic, in particular with Void Dwellers: 1) LEM changed VDs so they effectively cannot live on Gaia / Relic / Ecu. 2) VDs +15% output from VD is replaced with +20% for synths. 3) VDs +15% output is already offset with their -10% growth penalty. 4) Synth ascension … An ecu will still be fully habitable for void dwellers and ring world preferring species, though the VD bonus will not apply. Well, according to what I heard here you still get the debuff on ecu so no point inhabiting. At least with ring worlds, there is no buff nor debuff. The game changes it to the normal trinary system when you do anything else. Save Race after you are done. Change Starting System to Void Sol again. Immediately click on done to start the game, do nothing else. Then it works. somirion. • 4 yr. ago. Its Sol of other reality. Or just in future, where Sun caught other stars into some orbit ...Here are the effects of incubators listed by the Stellaris wiki: +1% Pop Growth Speed per pops below 37 (max +30%) −1% Pop Growth Speed per pops above 37 (max −10%) ... It gets even more powerful if you're playing something like void dwellers and spamming habitats everywhere, and even as a planet dweller you can still have breeding farm ...All you need to do is make sure your void dweller species doesn't immigrate to planets. Anything else regarding habitability isn't needed. Go psionic or genetic in my opinion. #6. corisai May 30, 2023 @ 3:39am. As you're Materialist - going psionic will unavoidable create a Spiritualist faction and will reduce overall happiness of your …MontyPlays posted a broken void dwellers build that hits 90% build cost reduction and gets like 30k fleet by year 30-50. It's pretty busted. ... A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the 4X grand strategy game Stellaris by Paradox Development Studio. Members Online.Advertisement One common knock upon anarchism is that it's a dreamy utopian vision that would never actually work on a large scale. Critics can point to places such as Somalia, whe...Thalassocracy - seeing as Stellaris is already technically all this, I feel like Void Dwellers would be closer to the idea in-universe. Other fun examples: Kleptocracy - rule by the corrupt, thieves, embezzlers. Technically not a legitimate government type since politicians in this case are usually acting outside the law, but in Stellaris you ...Void Dwellers −20% Habitat Build Cost +0.25 Building Slots from Non-Urban Habitat Districts +2 Habitat Max Districts +1 Jobs from Habitat Districts Can upgrade …Works best with Free Haven since it gives +50 immigration pull to every colony. If you don't know how to manipulate pop growth and migration, forget all that and just take Rapid Breeders instead. Also, Nonadaptive is a free negative trait for Void Dwellers. Use Proactive first contact protocol and send out some science ships to scout out other ...The real advantage of void dwellers is habitats can hyper-specialize right form the start. The Architecture Civic is almost essential because building slots on habitats are at a premium, you can only get 9 max if you start as a void dweller and 8 if …Were Void Dwellers Hard Nerfed? So I finally got down to read the patch notes with the Nemesis release today, and while on the surface, with all the traditions finally changed to actually benefit habitats as well when you pick the origin, it …This page was last edited on 1 April 2020, at 18:27. Content is available under Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 unless otherwise noted.; About Stellaris Wiki; Mobile viewWhen trimming a hollow core door, take off less than an inch off each side to avoid cutting into the void beyond the frame. Watch the video to see how it’s done. Expert Advice On I...x0 if Void Dwellers; x0.5 if chose 1 ascension perk; x0.1 if chose 2 ascension perks; x2 if below 8 planets; Mechromancy: 0 +15% L slot weapon damage +15% XL slot weapon damage +15% T slot weapon damage; Defeated organic guardians can be resurrected; 33% chance to resurrect each purged pop as Cyborg Zombie; Machine …Former consultant James Oliver found a way to fill a market void thanks to an HGTV show. Now he's running and managing his own business, WeMontage. By clicking "TRY IT", I agree to...Every night at 10 p.m., we tune in and our spirits are lifted a little higher. The 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games may not be happening this year, but the Quarantine Olympics are here to ...Void Dwellers; This society has always spent much time on improving and caring for their environment, in pursuit of building a true paradise for its inhabitants. Fanatic Purifiers Cannot be added or removed after game start +33% Fire rate +33% Army damage +33% Naval capacity −15% Ship cost; Cannot use the Minister of State council positionMar 19, 2020 · I think the species have a unique invisible flag "is_void_dweller" or something. This is because what's actually happens when you put a void dweller on a planet is that it gets it's "void dweller" trait replaced by a different "void dweller 2" trait, which is the one that gives the -60% growth and doesn't have the job bonuses. Void Dwellers −20% Habitat Build Cost +0.25 Building Slots from Non-Urban Habitat Districts +2 Habitat Max Districts +1 Jobs from Habitat Districts Can upgrade …Part of the appeal of Void Dwellers is making a space dwelling race. Colonizing planets with droids and xenos drains VD of all their flavour. Plus, using migration treaties to settle planets messes up your primary species growth. Dirt dwellers resettle on your habitats and grow there instead of your void dwellers.Both the ringworlds and the habitats as shown in stellaris work the same way, though: simulate planet life in an artificial platform floating in space. ... That is something we, planet dwellers, may not see. Void dwellers are more confortable in small spaces, and yes that image counts as an small space. That is just one city and a few …Void Dwellers should get +1 building slot on Habitats per size upgrade (+1 for 6 district size, +2 for 8 district size) ... Food is literally the most useless resource in Stellaris and is priced on the galactic market accordingly. Just make consumer goods or alloy, sell the excess and buy what food you need off the market or from the AI. ...Looking for the top activities and stuff to do in Lake Tahoe, CA? Click this now to discover the BEST things to do in Lake Tahoe - AND GET FR Words don’t do justice to the dramatic...Functional Architecture is a good civic for Void Dwellers since it gives you an extra building slot. There's also the Society techs for unlocking extra building slots (make sure you're …Part of the appeal of Void Dwellers is making a space dwelling race. Colonizing planets with droids and xenos drains VD of all their flavour. Plus, using migration treaties to settle planets messes up your primary species growth. Dirt dwellers resettle on your habitats and grow there instead of your void dwellers.Artificial planets are planets that are built from scratch. You turn existing planets into Ecumenopoli, so they don't count. 12a357sdf. • 2 yr. ago. It count somewhere in between. In Ecumenopoli, Void Dwellers have 100% habitability, but do not have the production bonuses. Their production still got decreased like in normal planets. It's not the habitability, the Void Dweller's trait (+15% worker and specialist job output) is replaced by a bad one (-60% output IIRC) when they're on a planet. Including Gaia worlds. I believe the -60% is to Pop growth speed, not output. There is also a negative to output though. Well, in the sense that you lose the Void Dweller output bonus ... 169. 151. Nov 20, 2020. Add bookmark. #1. It's my 4th (small) playthrough with void dwellers. In the first 3, I have chosen materialist ethos (for droids and synths to colonize planets) autoritharian and militarist and bioascension for improve me and my slave (I also go for modded Barbaric Despoilers). A micro-hell, but with many benefits.The base output of miners is 4 minerals. And artisans convert minerals to consumer goods in a 1:1 ratio. Note that both jobs already cost consumer goods in upkeep, so this would have to be deducted from the formula. Also the amount of minerals you can get is restricted by deep space mining sites and miner job slots, while trade value can …A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the 4X grand strategy game Stellaris by Paradox Development Studio. 424K Members. 1.5K Online. Top 1% Rank by size. Stellaris Real-time strategy Strategy video game Gaming. r/JumpChain.

I've tried to run my true and tested Institute build as Void Dwellers, but there doesn't seem to be a way to build enough alloys for habitats, ships and outposts. My current build is: F.Materialist, Egalitarian, Technocracy, Meritocracy, Intelligent, Traditional and Nonadaptive. By the year 2230 I'm finally building my first habitat and I .... Hours target pharmacy

The base output of miners is 4 minerals. And artisans convert minerals to consumer goods in a 1:1 ratio. Note that both jobs already cost consumer goods in upkeep, so this would have to be deducted from the formula. Also the amount of minerals you can get is restricted by deep space mining sites and miner job slots, while trade value can … Note: this mod provides its own habitat start separate from Federations' Void Dwellers since Stellaris 2.5.1. This legacy habitat start does not require Federations DLC. Formerly known as OE's Habitat start. Use of Void Dwellers or Starborn origin with Children of the Void civic is preferable, though. High compatibility Functional Architecture is a good civic for Void Dwellers. Base-level habitats can support about 13 pops before growth starts slowing down; that's about 2 housing districts, 2 resource districts, your capital building, and a couple other jobs. Once you can upgrade your habitats, you can transition all the housing to Luxury Housing buildings and ... Well, there's the fact that trade value produced is not increased in the least by the void dweller trait. That and the fact that habitat trade districts do not give merchants but just clerks, and as clerks are preferable only to unemployment ... For those reasons, megacorp void dwellers should only be taken disconsidering trade output ...Jun 14, 2020 · I also play almost entirely Void Dweller since release; the cheaper habitats simply made it stronger contrary to popular belief. Capital starts as your size 6 research hab, then you have a size 4 energy hab and size 4 mineral hab. 300 research at 2210 means you're probably overproducing and trying to debt leverage; these are idiotic theories ... Void Dwellers. Not bad. Startech mod. Grand Admiral, but with extra leader option and extra research alternatives mod. Void Dweller tech rush is pretty insane, and if you can get to proton launchers and cruisers by 2228, and build them out by 2230, you can stomp your neighbors and take their research/capital worlds. Note the 2.5k research in …The void dweller origin is limited to a single "empire". Selecting multiple void dweller empires currently causes only one to spawn and the rest to be replaced with other AI created empires. Ohhh, I remember that bug, yeah. I think one solution you can try is trying void dwellers expanded mod, if you want to play with that mod.Ecumenoplis are strong but Voidborne + Meritocracy + max stability + fanatic egalitarian means a single habitat dedicated to alloys will produce a significant amount. So they arent needed but might be nice. Its kinda a win more strategy. As far as I can tell, VD/VB is an early game tech rush strat component.For Stellaris this translate to a nation that is small, but has huge power, and lots of pop. and living space. The living space still stands, but now your chance to actually compete with a conqueror, or genocider has been significantly reduced. ... I think void dwellers should get a new ship similar to a science ship that will constantly ...Urcran. • 10 mo. ago. The void dwellers origin specifically mentions "artificial worlds", it used to only mention habitats in the old days, which seems like a deliberate change to expand what void dweller pops are useful on. I do believe this includes ring worlds and Ecumenopolis planets. I'm not sure what else could even be considered and ...City dwellers know that car sharing has its advantages. But what are the downsides? Learn the trouble with car sharing at HowStuffWorks Now. Advertisement It's easy to list the adv...Void dwellers have access to the unique trade district which makes trade better than energy for VD, since you can spike super hard in power early game. In Stellaris where …God-tier game. but tomb world makes you expand faster because you have your regular habitability plus the tomb world one. they changed it so that you keep your species default habitability (example, continental), but the …Functional Architecture is a good civic for Void Dwellers since it gives you an extra building slot. There's also the Society techs for unlocking extra building slots (make sure you're …An estimated 82% of people in North America now live in urban areas, according to research from Grayline Group, and those city dwellers are demanding more se... Get top content in ....

Waiting for the national market to improve may not work. The beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic prompted large numbers of city dwellers to reconsider their housing choices, with ma...

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